User talk:Cydira

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Contents 1 Quests 2 Items 3 Dye Kits 4 Discussion 5 When Updating 6 Monster Additions 7 Messages from Leord 8 Screenshots 9 Ads

Quests

Hi Cydira! I am really glad that you choose to help the community out by adding stuff to HellgateWiki! =) Not just you, there has been a LOT of help recently, and it feels great! Anyway, the quests will be done in a specific standard, and will be a lot more similar to Quest:Forage or Boilerplate:Quests. I might actually take a hint from you and make a table and/or a template for the basic stats you got there, but the general design will look more like one of the two examples I gave there. At the moment, the design isn't nailed, so feel free to add your thoughts in the Boilerplate:Quests discussion page! At the very least, when you make a quest, make sure the article name / url is "Quest:Name of Quest", and that you write [[Category:Quests]] at the end, so that we can all sort them as quests.

Don't let my massive quest article discourage you btw! You don't have to add dialogue and stuff, as long as the basics are covered, so people can find it, thats great. If you want to do more than that, even better ;) Ait. If you need any help, or have any questions, PM me on the forums if it is something private, or on my own talk page if someone else might benefit from the answer at some point! See you around! --Leord 00:10, 7 November 2007 (CET)

Good to hear from you, Leord. I commented on the Boilerplate:Quests talk page. I'd like to add what I can to the wiki (since I've used such resources extensively in the past and it feels good to help develop one). Your suggested style for the body of the quest articles looks very good, chock full of information.

I disagree with the naming, as I stated over there, though I do think all quests should be marked with a [[Category:Quests]] tag, as well as a tag for the station it originates in, and a tag for the main storyline quests, if indeed it is one. We not only need to get the information into the wiki, we need to make it easily accessible to players.

Also, the Category:Quests page becomes all Qs if you use the Quest:Name convention, making it much harder to find things. The tag should be the the classifier, not the name. Look how much nicer the Category page looks when it's not all in the Qs. --Cydira 19:35, 7 November 2007 (CET)

After some thought on the subject, you are right. Lets go with the real name, and deal with any disambiguations along the way. --Leord 17:41, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Just wanted to say that your Template:Quests Infobox was really nice. Would you mind implementing that into the Boilerplate:Quests? We can update the infobox itself a bit if you want, but better people start using that now. Perhaps rename it "Quest Infobox" first though... --Leord 16:42, 13 November 2007 (CET)

It's Pixelz's box. By the way, how are we defining "Quest Line"? It's straightforward for the Acts, but less so for some of the other quests. A certain NPC may give quests which you need to complete before he'll give other quests, but they may not be actually related to one another. I these cases, I think we shouldn't give the prerequisite, even though it is needed before you'll get the quest in question. Maybe we should call it "Previous" instead of "Prerequisite". That would work well, I think. --Cydira 18:05, 13 November 2007 (CET)

Just use your gut when it isn't logical. If the quests are related, add them as a quest line. No harm with not having a quest line either. Answered under the community portal as well. I am uncertain, the quests are prerequisites of each others, to be able to do them. So a quest can be in a specific quest line, but require other, unrelated quests, to do the ones further on. Is there many cases where "Standing" determines available quests? --Leord 20:15, 13 November 2007 (CET)

I've been going with my gut. I'm sure it'll be clearer when we have the text for the quests which ones belong in which line. I'm just doing the best I can now and we'll refine it later. As far as I know, there are currently no quests which require standing. I think they plan to implement that later. Also, I assume that there will be times when you can get a quest even if you've not done one before it, but I haven't seen that yet. For instance, what if Nemo comes back next year and gives more Guy Fawkes Day quests, which are in the same quest line as this year's, but which don't require this year's quests to do? This year's are previous quests then, but not prerequisites.

Maybe break the two things up into two lines? One for the previous quest in the line and one for prerequisites (this is where standing and class and whatever requirements would go)? A quest line box would also make it so we don't have to list the previous quests in the line as prerequisites and save that solely for non-quest requirements (subscriber, certain class, certain standing with a particular faction, etc).--Cydira 20:20, 13 November 2007 (CET)

Sorry, I didn't see this before now. You are right, we should do it as two separate things. Prerequisites and Quest line are definitely two areas per quest, not one. --Leord 14:51, 28 November 2007 (CET)

Items

Have you done any work on Items (in general, weapons, or armor?) Just wanted to say I am making a new categorization, and that should be reflected in the item navbox ;) --Leord 17:41, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Nope, I just updated the navbox. I'm leaving items to others. My focus is first on quests and stations, second on quest-givers (and other NPCs, I guess), last on non-station places. --Cydira 17:42, 9 November 2007 (CET)

Nice addition to the Clothes page, thanks :) Regards---Xodusness 18:57, 12 November 2007 (CET)

Thank you. Keep up the good work, X. --Cydira 20:32, 12 November 2007 (CET)

Dye Kits

Do you own two dye kits on your account or how did you take those screenshots? It seems to me some consolidated community effort needs to be made if we want all classes/dye kits screenshotted --Pixelz 19:21, 10 November 2007 (CET)

I have the Wasp and Royal dye kits. I'm thinking about trying to get the other two, also. I have an unredeemed pre-order for the Royal and might see about trading it for one of the two others, but it's a hard thing to do, as most people who pre-ordered didn't stop there, and I don't want to trade with someone disreputable and let them get something from me for nothing.

I can take screenshots for the other classes, but I really wanted to make sure I could get them to look nice in the table. I wasn't thinking about doing it for all classes, though. I just wanted people to have some idea of the difference between the kits.--Cydira 04:33, 12 November 2007 (CET)

I begged/borrowed/stole the other two, so I'll update the screenshots with a summoner in the same outfit with each dye kit (and no dye kit). --Cydira 23:32, 27 November 2007 (CET)

Discussion

Please, no deletion from discussion pages (never). Specialy not from my discussion page ;) Thanx --GoodWill 19:08, 13 November 2007 (CET)

I figured you were tired of looking at it, but sure thing. Revert revert! --Cydira 19:11, 13 November 2007 (CET)

No, discussion pages are like forums. I am uncertain on how wikiers solve overly long ones, if it it is a "move" to "User_talk:"Cydira/1" or the like, to get more pages or something... --Leord 20:17, 13 November 2007 (CET)

Usually how it's done is you archive the discussion page every so often under the article itself by moving it. For example moving this page to User talk:Cydira/Archive 1. --Pixelz 17:16, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Thanks Pixelz. It's about time for Leord's talk page and the Community portal talk page to get archived. ;) This page isn't quite there yet. --Cydira 09:29, 11 December 2007 (CET)

I think you are right. I need to summarize some of it to the front page of the portal though. --Leord 12:16, 11 December 2007 (CET)

When Updating

Hey there :-) I would just encourage you to remember to add a summary when creating or editing articles since the summary of your edit otherwise is set to be a part of the content. In case of tables and such that looks a bit silly. Have a look at the Recent changes page to see what I mean :-) --TheEnemy 20:23, 28 November 2007 (CET)

I know what you mean. The edit usually isn't big enough to warrant the time it takes to write a summary, and a part of the content often sums things up well, especially when it's a new page. Thanks for stopping by. :) --Cydira 20:26, 28 November 2007 (CET)

Nobody says that is has to be a novel in the summary ;-) For new pages I think it's better to just write "Created page" or something alike it than leave it empty. It helps the overview at the recent changes page :-) --TheEnemy 21:25, 28 November 2007 (CET)

There's a N before the article name when it's a new article. Why should I be redundant? --Cydira 21:27, 28 November 2007 (CET)

My whole point is to avoid the summaries that look like:
"(New page: {|width=250px align="right" float:right;| |<center>Image:Quests.jpg</center> |- |'''Title:''' Test of Beauty<br> '''Giver:''' The Sister<br> '''Location:''' Ropemaker Street<br...)".

It clutters things needlessly up. You could write an empty space, add a dash or something if you feel it's redundant. --TheEnemy 21:35, 28 November 2007 (CET)

I understand how you feel. I'd rather use those keystrokes to enter actual information, though. I'm sorry we can't come to a mutually satisfactory resolution on this issue. Adding new pages just started doing that. Maybe you should talk to the admins, to put that bit of the wiki back to the way it was before. --Cydira 21:43, 28 November 2007 (CET)

As far as I know, that is part of this wiki version. While we will fix the odd "edit" links and some parsing that Pixelz (I think) mentioned, we won't be downgrading. Still, we might ask all editors to just put "N" in the summary field on new articles for now, to avoid this problem. I will see if there is any way to keep the summary field empty if the user didn't put anything into it. I know it is a tab and a key stroke extra, not that bad, but if you are in the mid of making many pages, it can be annoying for sure, and the summary descriptions in the Recent Changes sucks ass with all that code. --Leord 13:24, 29 November 2007 (CET)

I'll do it when I remember (and I've already put in a space at least once), but I'm not going to make any promises. I use the Recent Changes page a lot, too, and it's not too hard to ignore. Granted, I made the pages, so I know what was up with them, but it's not too hard to mentally filter the noise. It's a silly thing to be arguing about. It is what it is. --Cydira 15:51, 29 November 2007 (CET)

Agreed, silly to argue about. I am more than satisfied by that answer. :) As long as none are deliberately avoiding to write something there to spite others, that is fine ;) --Leord 13:24, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Monster Additions

I noticed you were starting monster additions; it is something I've been slacking on as I'm having more fun playing the game, though I have been relatively successful at getting screenshots of all the rare nameds and attributed monsters I'm finding ;)
I tried using the NPC Infobox to create a screenshot box similar to what the NPCs have, but unfortunately it completely breaks the Monster Navbox. Would it be better then to use a "plain ol" image thumbnail?

Further, I've started putting the random monster attributes in the "Special" section. I have been cataloguing those for my guild (and also posted some on the official site, and will likely somehow try to organize the list for this Wiki) but do you think this is the best place to put them?

And I had a question about Categorizing them, but darned if I could remember it now. :\ --Mileron 20:58, 29 November 2007 (CET)

I really dunno. I don't have any preferences. I couldn't play this morning (so no new quests to add), but I wanted to do something on the wiki, and I saw that some of the Named Monsters needed some work. I was playing around, hoping to elicit suggestions (and to mark the articles with mostly pre-launch info as stubs so we know to look at them)

I was going to give making a Named Monster infobox a try, since it would need to be different than the NPC infobox. I didn't see yours; can you link to it here? If you didn't do one, I can try one. If you did, I can add my tow cents. ;)

I have no screenshots and really nothing new to add to the Named Monsters, save some organizing and categorizing (and adding the monster navbox, though I'm not sure if that's really what's required). You have more experience with them, so I'd love to see your take on a Boilerplate:Named Monsters and the infobox.

Also, I haven't been making the Named Monsters links in the quests I've entered, but I'll start doing so now, so the pages will be ready when it's time for you to add your monsters. Let me know what you need done (or need opinions on) and I'll do it. --Cydira 21:53, 29 November 2007 (CET)

Re: NPC Infobox - I just go into the NPC Boilerplate or George and grab the code for "NPC Infobox" and insert what I need. I really have no idea what I'm doing as far as actually formatting; the Subscriber chart took me over two hours of previewing after butchering the table above ;) but it made sense because I'm a little familiar with HTML (even if very rusty.)

I tried my hand at the Areal BP but that was just tweaking the NPC BP to what I think Areas might use. I wasn't able to find where you got your own template for the monsters you've done, but I borrowed that ;) to do my own entries. -- Mileron 22:49, 29 November 2007 (CET)

I actually didn't use a boilerplate, but since you thought it was good enough to use, I made Boilerplate:Named Monsters and Template:Named Monster Infobox. Please tweak them as you see fit, so we can agree on a standard. I'm looking foward to you uploading all those Named Monster screenshots. ;) Is there anything else that needs to be on the boilerplate or in the infobox? Anything moved? --Cydira 00:11, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Continued this discussion on Boilerplate:Named Monsters =) --Leord 14:51, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Messages from Leord

I have an important message to all Wikians on my user page :) --Leord 18:47, 30 November 2007 (CET)

The Community Feature Requests page? I don't see them much caring, but I'll take a look and add my two cents. :P --Cydira 18:53, 30 November 2007 (CET)

Could possibly be true, but out of a few hundred seeing the thread, perhaps a few cares enough for the community to contribute. As always on official forums, you have the biggest amount of people, and the highest ratio of whiners. --Leord 12:51, 3 December 2007 (CET)

I just sent you a forum pm. --Leord 16:22, 10 December 2007 (CET)

Hey man, had a nice Christmas? --Leord 12:59, 9 January 2008 (CET)

Screenshots

I found I had a Rah shot :) but no Spud, sorry. --Mileron 23:12, 5 December 2007 (CET)

Nice. We'll get 'em all eventually. ;) --Cydira 19:30, 6 December 2007 (CET)

Ads

There are ways to get rid of them. I actually haven't seen any ads on this site yet. Do you want help? --BSTL 08:09, 21 December 2007 (CET)

No, my browser's been taking care of it. After I reloaded, I didn't see them again, just when I initially opened the page. It's the principle of the thing. I know it takes money to keep the site running, but how much is profit for Flux? Does Leord get paid? I need some time to think about it. Answers from those two wouldn't hurt, either. Thanks, BSTL. --Cydira 21:12, 21 December 2007 (CET)

For some unknown reason this is taboo for some people who don't understand how the really good fansites are run. There is a complexity to it, but needless to say, IncGamers have had Hellgate become a major drain on economy, because Flagship released the game too early. If you ain't that bothered by the ads here, please keep them on. If you'd like to discuss this further with me, feel free to send me a forum PM or add me to ICQ/MSN. :) And that sounded a bit odd, of course you can discuss this, I just meant if you want more info.. Nm, whatever, I am rambling, just PM me if you want any info. :) --Leord 13:05, 9 January 2008 (CET)