Talk:Modifiers

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Contents 1 Nomenclature 2 Can we see the wood yet? 3 Use of a table? 4 Sent in a listing

Nomenclature

Just thought I would suggest a change of name for modifiers. Though it's a carry over from D2 it is kind of confusing, thanks to mods / modifications in game. Maybe Special (Item) Attributes, as they are called in the item details window, or Item Properties, or something. Probably not a big deal as the game ages, and as people acclimate themselves with it, but just a thought. :)

I added a link to the modifiers page in the item navbox for you.

Oh, white items can sometimes have a modifier too. I think it's tied into the base item type. I noticed a few items in beta, such as white engineer belts, with very small bonuses to pet armour/hp. Can't really give any details until release, though.
Tenera 16:18 EST, 30 October 2007

Is there a nice Latin word for having modifiers we can use? Somewhat recognisable ;) We could probably go with "modifiers" for a while longer at least. But it is a good question. --Leord 14:29, 31 October 2007 (CET)

After much discussion, we decided to use "Affixes" instead of "Modifiers" as info word. For one thing, there is Affixes that doesn't affect any Special Attributes (official word, but a tad long), so that works best. I'll get back to this some time in the future ^^ --Leord 14:22, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Can we see the wood yet?

Whoot!

Things are becoming ever so slightly clearer. I used several images to get the modifiers listed in the article and now that they are in black and white and orange, I can see a pattern. Check out: Disrupting (Shield overload +55%) [1], Subverting (Shield overload +82%) click and Demolishing (Shield overload +100%) click details taken from images uploaded. Not only can we see different names for the amount of damage done, we can also see that the modifiers are coloured in the inspection panel. Disrupting is white (55%), Subverting is blue (82%) and Demolishing is orange (100%). I suspect that there will be a randomly rolled %, and that if the result falls in band 1 it's white, band 2 is blue and band 3 is orange. There may be more ranks too Dark Matter 21:02, 30 October 2007 (CET)

Along those lines, were you wanting to categorize the modifiers page according to rarity as well as alphabetically, or just alphabetically? I ask because I've started writing up a list of modifiers, which is currently organized by rarity, but wanted to ask you about it before I started adding any of them as purely alphabetically (thus making it more work to switch over if that's what was decided). Don't think it matters for most situations, but it could be useful for those who like to play with the augmentrex. Tenera 21:35, 31 October 2007 (CET)

Update: Nevermind. I'm noting some overlapping in 'quality', so it seems to be tied entirely into the numerical values of the modifiers, and not the names, resulting in some names spanning over 2 (or even 3) quality levels. Might be worth noting in the tables, however, which rarities the modifiers have appeared in. Tenera 01:19, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Thanks for feedback Tenera. I too have been screenshotting items as I play and am getting more info. I thought that I'd list everything alphabetically first and, once we had an idea of the types of mods, start to sort them into categories/types later. My instinct was to get the information, and then let the consensus decide what to do with it. Dark Matter 01:41, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Aye, we might just make a table out of it then, as the Prefix seems to be mostly a "giver" of what stat, not the amount. Quality will be one of the variables, simply as that --Leord 14:24, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Actually there is a 'quality' indicator. The name of the modifier can be one of three colours - white, blue or orange - and they seem to be comparable to the item colour ranks; white being the lowest/weakest and orange being the highest/strongest. See the Shield overload examples above. Dark Matter 16:14, 1 November 2007 (CET)

Too many Indents, back we go to the start...

OK, Confirmed. There are definately 3 ranks; Common (white), Rare (blue) and Legendary (orange) Properties. You can check out the Augmentrex 3000, which gives you the choice to purchase one of the three ranks to upgrade your item. Dark Matter 15:11, 2 November 2007 (CET)

To make things complicated there is some bleed over across ranks; not just in affix names but also in values. For example, I've seen Necroscourge (critical chance multiplier (necros)) value of 62% coloured as legendary, but one of 91% coloured as Rare. Most stay neatly in their little boxes, but some, like that, seem to be all over the place. I also have Clever (+willpower) in all categories +2 in common, +3 in rare, +4 in legendary, while other +stat affixes have a range 2-4,2-5 all under common. I imagine it could just be a matter of some effects sharing a name across all quality levels, and there just being overlay in the possible rolls for the final affix outcome. (ie, what if all quality levels use the word Clever for that stat increase? And common = 1-5, rare = 1-10, and legendary = 1-20?) My list of affixes is starting to get pretty big (I add to it every time I'm in town and do a round of identifying), but I just wanted to know if this format is the final one were going with before adding anything? Tenera 20:16, 2 November 2007 (CET)

Well, there is a great deal of uncertanty on how they actually work. As you describe, all prefixes (has anyone seen a single suffix btw?) has a "type" of modifier, but the number varies on a name, and same number can be on two names. There is no harm in continuing to document, I took a gig worth of screenshots on my first real time to play the game. I will look through that data soon as well. I am akso heavily into trying to figure out skill points... I don't quite understand your question though. At the moment, it is just "reverse engineering" trying to figure it all out. after that, we will try to present it to others so they understand as well. save as much data you can as possible, until we have (more or less secure) facts to use. =) --Leord 20:08, 3 November 2007 (CET)

Just want to add something about that seemingly illogical range of modifiers etc.. I've been watching and screening a load of weapon mods, and making a list of the modifiers on them with values etc, and I can tell with certainty that at least for the weapons mods, the modifiers on them are set with %values, and scale with your level on non% values.. For example a legendary +15-25% damage mod, will always stay in that range, while a adds X to shock attack strength scales with your level.. stats at around 10-20, seen it at over 70 in mid thirties cLvl :) Might be the same for other types of items :) --Xodusness 16:58, 13 November 2007 (CET)

Use of a table?

I added a table, and filled it with all the information about affixes that I have (Trying to switch to new nomenclature, cause modifiers is really confusing). It directly competes with the list that's already there, so one of them should go, but I think that a table is a bit more organized and easy to read. Its unfortunate that this wiki can't use sortable tables.

A couple of things I noticed about the affixes. First off, I think they are very item dependent. What is white on an item might be blue on a leg armor, for instance. In my raw data (just an .xls I made up) I have the item type and rarity that each of these modifiers came off of. Also, if you are wondering about the top movement speed bonus, its actually an affix that didn't have a name (and therefore no rarity). At first I thought it was an inherent attribute, but I looked again and its in the special attributes section. -- Otakat 22:26, 4 November 2007 (CET)

Those attributes you mention, nameless, are actually inherent attributes. Basically, at say... iLv17 you might have 2 types of armor with different names, where usually there is only one. (For one class). The second one, has a new name because they have that nameless affix added. So, it's still an attribute inherent to that particular item type. Thorns damage on guardian gear, is another example of this. It's an attribute (and damage value) inherent to the item types, but it isn't listed as such, and it too doesn't have a affix name.

As for the table... How about a mix between the two methods? Have it sectioned alphabetically, but also in tables. Reason being, that there are a LOT of affixes in the game, and it will become hard to read if in one big table. Letters with only a couple affixes can be grouped with nearby letters in the same state, and then separated out later if they become too big (10+?). Tenera 01:06, 8 November 2007 (CET)

IMHO, affixes should be arranged by function (like, damage modifiers), rather than alphabetically. Each function can then be a table on it's own. Or since there is machine to add enchantments, it should be arranged to help use that machine (white/blue/orange gropus for example). Categorization is necessary, but alphabetical categorization is useless. BSTL 01:54, 8 November 2007 (CET)

I agree with BSTL. Having them in an alphabetical list will just make a VERY long list, considering some affixes exist in different qualities (White, Blue, Orange). --Leord 12:47, 8 November 2007 (CET)

I'm currently making a list of Affixes on Mods (yes the upgrades :p), and for now I've sorted them after "Enhanced", "Rare", "Legendary", and alphabetically in-between those.. After I get a more comprehensive list, I'll add it in under a "Mod-Affixes" section on this page if you agree to that? Regards---Xodusness 15:59, 12 November 2007 (CET)

This thread (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=37458) on the oboards shows a good way of organizing these lists I think. It also shows a good chunk of the affixes which are in some way tied into the iLvl or cLvl (such as the elemental defense affixes), and it may be best to follow this thread's route and simply designate them as being minor, moderate, or major bonuses, as the actual numerical ranges overlap widely depending on the level of the item. There may also be need to separate the affixes of mods from the affixes of weapons and armour. While there is some sharing of affixes, there are also some affixes with different names for the same properties on mods, as well as some affixes with the same properties but difference ranges on mods than on weapons. (http://forums.hellgatelondon.com/showthread.php?t=36340) is another thread with affixes sorted by rarity with some vague sub-sorting by type. It's much less neat though. Thoughts? --Tenera 16:21, 18 November 2007 (CET)

Tanera, can you share a small example? I don't have access to official forums yet. --BSTL 20:25, 18 November 2007 (CET)

"I don't have access yet" = Lazy ;) Just register an US account as well, and you can log on there. Registration takes as long as on our forums, really. If there are some technical probs, here is how it looks:

• Accuracy
  • Refined - +2-5 Accuracy
  • Eagle's - +6-8 Accuracy
  • Falcon's - +12-15 Accuracy
  • Zephyr's - +19-20 Accuracy
• Strength
  • Burly - +4-5 Strength
  • Hound's - +8-10 Strength
  • Tiger's - +13 Strength
  • Lionheart - +20 Strength

It seems to be the best way to sort it. --Leord 14:04, 19 November 2007 (CET)

Agreed. This infact was what I was suggesting above. (BTW, the problem with registration is that I don't have the game yet, I only have the demo.)--BSTL 17:17, 19 November 2007 (CET)

Well, if you'se not in a hurry to get it, wait until Patch 1, when the game probably is about what it should have been at release ;) --Leord 19:14, 22 November 2007 (CET)

Thats what I'm planning actually. I don't really have time to play it much now. I don't want to encounter any experience breaking bugs, with just a little time to deal with them. There two critical ones in demo, one is that the game really slows down when there is a big outdoor level and you are looking towards the end (regardless if you can see it or not). Second one is about ravagers, where they jump, land somewhere, but they don't show up at the place they've landed, although they can still hit you. You need to fire at your best guess to kill them. Are these fixed? -- BSTL 19:44, 22 November 2007 (CET)

I have never seen the first bug you mentions. Only time it sowed down was when I used FRAPS too much. I just stopped/started the recording to resume. The second one I think is better, but when I played a few days ago, it still happened here and there. --Leord 11:32, 23 November 2007 (CET)

Sent in a listing

Basically I'm not sure when you will get to see what I've contributed as I submitted it as a contest entry. But basically I sent in a list of approx 200 modifiers that I spent a couple hundred hours collecting.

I broke them down in a few ways:

Modifier name::Item Level :: Classes that can get the mod:: rarity it can be found:: and the range of the mods ability

EX: (just making this up) Febrile , item lvl 34-48, TH , RL , Fire Dmg (Thorns): (4-7)

In the list I used abbreviations for the classes and the rarities.

Templar (Blademaster + Guardian) = T:: Hunter (Marksman + Engineer) = H:: Cabalist ( Evoker, Summoner) = C::

Enhanced(common)(white) = E:: Rare (blue) = R:: Legendary (orange) = L::

this is all on a huge excel spreadsheet I hope this benefits this list while I know it adds a tons of extra dimensions to the Modifier puzzle after doing it for awhile I'm seeing definite variances across class specific modifiers. There are some mods that only drop for a certain class but for the most part are essentially identical say for they class requirement.

Ty for your time and have a great thanksgiving all. --Voidmaster 17:34, 22 November 2007 (CET)

Thanks for that Voidmaster, and good luck with the competition.! -- Dark Matter 17:52, 22 November 2007 (CET)

I would love if you could send a copy to leord [at] incgamers [dot] com! I won't use it without permission or anything, just wanted to have a more clear picture of the whole thing of modifiers. --Leord 19:16, 22 November 2007 (CET)